Clive Rawlings writes – What’s printed below is from a recent meeting with the girls & boys from Elephant Shelf. We also ran through an earlier interview I did for Blues Matters and updated it. Elephant Shelf was always one of my favourite bands – slightly exotic and always a tad different. They appeared to be having a quieter time this year but from what Vicky Martin and Diana Stone told me recently things are about to change.
Well ladies, what’s the latest?
Vicky - Well Great Uncle Clive – we recently decided to change our drummer – it seemed to have run its course and felt very tired with the line-up we had; and our good friend Robin Bibi recommended Lee Collins, he’d played a lot with Robin’s band. We met him played with him and it immediately lifted – Lee is a very technically accomplished player and we’re all really enjoying playing with him.
Diana – Yes, but although its been a quieter year for the Shelf – our duo DELTA LADIES has done masses of gigs and we’ve been getting a fantastic reception everywhere we play….
Vicky…we’ve built the name up a lot, so we’ve decided that to make the most of that Elephant Shelf is going to be known as ELEPHANT SHELF featuring the Delta Ladies.
Will the Delta Ladies continue as a duo?
Diana – Yes duo gigs are essential to our survival and also we do a whole lot of different material as a duo
It seems a long time since Elephant Shelf had an album out?
Vicky – Yes well it’s going to be out in February – in fact we’re launching it at the 100 Club on the 26th February.
Why so long?
Diana – We’d were pretty discouraged by what had happened with the previous line-up – we’d had problems with several tracks – lots of re-recording and editing – we did finish up with part of an album but were reluctant to release it.
Vicky – Yes we didn’t seem to have quite enough –we’d struggled to get decent takes of certain songs we wanted to use, and frankly we’d given up. When we started playing with Lee those songs immediately came to life – so we’re in the process of adding those tracks and we’re looking forward to the album coming out
Where is it being recorded?
Diana –It’s being produced by Pete Crisp with most of it recorded at Saint FM studios in Burnham-on-Crouch – that’s were Tim Aves does his radio show. Pete produced Hokie Joint’s first two albums and also Wolkpack’s album.
Has the band’s style changed with the new drummer?
Vicky – Yes it’s developing – it’s much quieter with Lee on the drums and it’s enabling us to play with more subtlety – we’re getting much more into swing R&B tunes and rootsy stuff. In a way it’s a much more vintage sound with influences from old rock ‘n roll and guys like T. Bone Walker.
Diana – Yes and we’re looking at some of the jazzier side of R&B and blues as well – Duke Ellington, Louis Jordan and people like that. Its becoming an interesting mix.
Plans for the future?
Vicky – well look out for us this year because we’re planning to be everywhere- actually its not been that quiet this year well over 100 gigs in fact, but an awful lot of those have been duo gigs.
Are you still involved with Blues Matters Magazine?
Vicky - No we’ve both severed our connections – we won’t
say to much except that were not to enamoured with certain aspects of the
they treat those who work for them or certain of their customers. We’re now
involved with a major roots / blues web project www.liveblues.info
and with a new online magazine www.rootsandbluesuk.com
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The following is an updated re-edit of my interview with Vicky & Diana of Elephant Shelf originally published in Blues Matters around 18 months ago.
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Interviewed by Clive Rawlings (from Blues Matters! Issue 58)
I met Vicky Martin & Diana Stone with their band Elephant Shelf at Skegness Blues weekend earlier this year also in their other ‘incarnation’ as the Delta Ladies during their French tour. I enjoyed their musicality and the high level of excitement and entertainment they provide. Our interview was before a night out in Brighton, touching many bases from the blues to Al Bowlly - even Dixon of Dock Green got a look in!
Welcome to Brighton…when we talked before you mentioned the band has been going for 6 years. Tell me some of the background and where you’re at now.
Vicky –It’s just over six years and 750 plus gigs by now. The first three years we had a larger line-up; with sax and harmonica, rhythm guitar and even backing vocals and dancers sometimes too. Jessie Pie, a singer and writer from the burlesque circuit, fronted the band alongside me. We got popular in North London then Brighton but played all over, it was a lot of fun doing some great gigs but eventually it ran its course and Miss Pie went her own way. We cut the band down to a six-piece and carried on. A few of mine and Diana’s songs were in the set, I started writing more and more and they went down really well.
We decided to record an album and try breaking onto the main circuit.
That’s really difficult to do, but getting Monica (Madgwick’s) recommendation was a vital step forward for us. Now we’re getting endorsements by such as Dale Storr, Jim Rodford of the Zombies, Barry Goldberg, and Larry Miller, and we’re getting on the circuit. At present several venue owners are open to new acts and if there’s something original to offer you’re in with a shout.
I’ve listened to your album; In Trouble Again and I think its brilliant- it has quite a lot of different styles – there’s blues, there’s reggae and quite a lot else – how would you describe your music?
Vicky- Thanks for the compliment, Clive. Our songs have all sorts of influences; maybe it could be described as something posh like ‘an eclectic blues based mix’? Mind you, we’ve been looking around Facebook seen the twaddle that’s written to describe music these days – so we came up with this selection; ‘gloriously garrulous, diffidently divine, pumping, wheezy, guitar and fiddle-driven, contemporary avant-roots...!’…but seriously folks – we all go back a long way. The Stones were my first inspiration, they turned me on to Muddy Waters and co and I’ve stayed with that ever since and in all that time I’ve stayed with certain players as my main inspiration – Miles Davis, Keith Richard, Bob Dylan, Ray Charles, Richard Thompson and Nina Simone –all because of musical attitude really but we also like Al Bowlly and Flanagan and Allen.
Al Bowlly?
Diana – Yes, he was a popular 1930’s English crooner who died in the Blitz. He made the original version of Ray Noble’s ‘The Very Thought of You’, (Vicky interjects “Which Di sings & plays very well!”)|. We listen to lots of stuff; show tunes and vaudeville stuff; people like Flanagan and Allen; we put their tunes into the Delta Ladies show at times.
Vicky – Well there’s definitely a touch of vaudeville in rock ‘n’ roll, take the Rolling Stones tradition – remember their rock and roll circus, the top hats and all that sort of thing?
Al Bowlly
There seems to be a country influence?
Vicky – well I listen to a lot of roots country – not the Nashville stuff and it has all of the blues and more in it – people like Gillian Welch, and a new singer I’ve recently come across – Eilen Jewell – there are so many great players in that field and the music is real and soulful.
There’s a back porch style song on the album ‘Willow Tree’
Vicky- Yes, that’s my favourite track, I’m real proud of that one, the song was written at 5.30am one Monday before I drove off to Reading (used to work there) but recording wise it just came together in one take.
Diana – yes the instruments work really well, quite a few have commented on the combination of harmonica and violin on that track.
The violin sounds very good
Diana – Yes it’s a 230 year-old instrument and the back has a carved image of Benjamin Franklin, so we reckon it was made when he was President of the USA
What about your guitars and amps Vicky
Vicky – well I use an old Les Paul Deluxe and I just plug into a souped up Fender Blues Junior, for slide I use a cheap old Mexican Strat. I’m really getting into arch-tops now; I’ve got a Tokai jazz guitar that I’m adding a second pick-up
Effects?
Vicky -No I just plug in sort the tone and go
Diana – yes we’re a pretty uncomplicated bunch really –no one uses any effects or pedals
Favourite guitarists?
Vicky –Well recently I’ve been knocked out by Jerry Miller the guitarist with the Eilen Jewell, he’s superb, then its Keith Richards, Muddy Waters & Richard Thompson, but my favourite musos are Miles Davis and Ray Charles.
Diana what about you?
Well my musical background is different from Vicky’s – which possibly contributes to the band’s overall feel. My favourite jazz guitarist is Joe Pass and for blues & rock a certain Mr Hendrix. I like a lot of fiddlers from the whole spectrum of folk to jazz to classical, bits of all of them have crept into what I play over the years.
The rest of the band?
Diana – We’ve got young Robbie Charles on bass, he’s been in all sorts of jazz and funk acts and he plays in a top Klezma band, so he’s very eclectic as well…
Vicky- …and he supports QPR…!
What about Rosie?
Vicky – Our ‘Little’ Rosie has an amazingly powerful voice for such a wee one – her background is at the soul / pop end of things. She’s a Spurs supporter like the rest of us so she’s got to be OK, and she’s been down the gym a lot lately so I have to watch what I say!
Could you describe the philosophy of the band?
Vicky – We believe in entertaining the people – everybody that is; not just guitar anoraks.
Diana –Yes, what we do is song not ‘solo’ based; we stand or fall on the quality of our songs.
Vicky - We’ve had lots of people say the songs are really good – Dale Storr, Golly Gallagher, Larry Miller, Jim Rodford, Raphael Ravenscroft…interesting line-up that…
Diana – But we’ve a way to go to catch up with Roadhouse – David Cameron liked their songs –
Vicky – But he’s only the Prime Minister – Golly & Larry are much more significant! It’s simple though; we believe in entertainment – that’s the business we’re in. I don’t believe that, apart from a very limited audience, people want to hear endless guitar solos, I mean how many more times are we gonna hear this or that guitarist called the best thing since the invention of the wheel? It’s all at overkill levels and already being sent up in some places. Say what you like – we’re all in the entertainment business - that’s why Larry Miller is so good because he’s a great entertainer.
I’ve had bands say to me, really worried; ‘Is this a blues audience?’
It’s such nonsense; our job as musicians is to entertain so it’s no good saying ‘Oh it wasn’t a blues audience’; do it right and you’ll communicate.
Coming back to the album I believe there’s a story behind the title track?
VM: Yeah, I wrote that after we got stranded with a van load of gear but no ignition key outside a pub in Holloway at 2AM!
Our harpist then, Dan Foster, had packed the van and then went off on his bike with the van keys and his mobile switched off. A Keystone cops type of adventure followed. I changed the lyrics but that was the inspiration.
What about ‘Undubwise’? The CD notes say it’s about the transgender experience - tell us about that.
Diana- I wrote the music, it’s a sort of reggae groove and Vicky said I think I might have a song to go with that. I was sceptical, but when she showed me the lyrics it worked. It tells it as it is in a kind of simplified poetic way.
Vicky – Yes it’s just telling the basic really. Transgender life brings a whole heap of trouble with it; family break-up, laddered tights, peep toe-shoes in the wrong weather, all that sort of thing! The song doesn’t touch that.
Has the transgender issue caused any problems for the band?
Vicky – Not really but we’ve never deliberately never sold the band on that basis. We’ve never said ‘Hey, look at us!’ We’re just are as we are; first of all a band and musicians, the trans thing is just there. We present as a band playing our blues and our R&B, our own songs and it lives or dies on that. We get a lot of leg-pulling and jokes, but hey, who cares anyway, we’re in the entertainment business.
Diana -– It makes us a little more memorable, which might be an unfair advantage. I would say we are more what you might call ‘Saga Louts!’ J
Has it ever caused problems at venues?
Vicky - Well, not really. We’ve done every sort of venue from the roughest Irish pub to five star restaurants and nothing bad has happened really… we did this pub in Streatham, it was rough, as we walked up to the door, a bunch of “Paddies” came rolling out the door fighting, and one looked at me and said “Oi bet your f______ proud o’yourself darling?”, and I said “Give us a kiss and I’ll tell you”, any way in the place there were punch-ups going on all night, and some 6’6” Mick who kept falling over us, but they liked us and we won them over.
There were punch-ups going on all night with a massive guy who kept falling over us, nevertheless, they liked us; we won them over.
Another place in the early days was a big football pub, full of Arsenal fans, right hard looking lot, it felt a bit intimidating when we walked in – but we just rocked the house and they loved it- they adopted us as a sort of mascot in the end! After that not much bothers us – the other night we played a biker’s venue and we got a few hard looks as we walked in but we won them after two tunes – the music always does it for us really.
Diana - I had a few “interesting” conversations with punters, mostly about violin & piano technique and if I’d give lessons or personal instruction! J
Tell us about your future plans
Vicky –We’re planning a new Shelf album, starting work on that around Christmas time.
Have you got any songs for the album?
Diana - Yes we’ve got enough numbers for two albums at the moment and a lot of them are road-tested as well. As we gig regularly we can try out new material and allow it to grow so it’s ready when we record. We are ruthless at dropping things that don’t work in front of an audience.
So how do you go about writing songs?
Vicky –We always have a small recorder ready to put down any ideas – we call it our sketchbook. So I’ve often got lots of lyrical ideas or musical fragments I can use and adapt and apply. These things are often a groove of some sort – in fact, the new album will have some of what we call ‘groove tunes’ on it. We’ve tried these on recent gigs; at our recent Charlotte Street date we had the crowd up and dancing for the whole second set so it works. Last night we played Scally’s in Weston-super-Mare and we had masses of dancing – so we’re getting to be really danceable.
Diana’s written and recorded dozens of songs – she’s been played on Radio 6 - I often sift through her back catalogue for suitable stuff – there’s a lot s of good tunes there.
Diana - My taste is quite eclectic and I write in almost every musical genre, an occasional hint of prog rock creeps in too and it’s mostly a long way from the blues. I have forbidden things like synths and samplers in my home studio. I have written a lot of instrumental music too. I also play guitar and mandolin and almost anything else I can get my hands on so some of my songs lean towards folk or country too. …
Vicky I believe you mentioned playing in dance bands?
Vicky – What in the old sense? Yes, I played in real dance bands, doing foxtrots, waltzes and such. I remember when I played in Tim Aves’s neck of the woods (not a band name by the way) in Burnham on Crouch, it was in a dance band with a guy called ‘Three Chords Max’, and I actually brought in some Elmore James stuff on electric slide – that dance band was never the same again!
Have you got any interesting events from your early days as a player?
Vicky -I developed late as a player and only got interesting stuff going when I started to teach guitar in the 90’s, but Diana has some interesting tales about when she did sound control at Hammersmith Odeon– especially the one about Bluegrass legend Bill Munroe…
Diana - I was quite lucky to work there - one of my first jobs after leaving school in the days when they still showed films too. Because I was 17 my parents had to sign a consent form so I could show X rated films. I saw a lot of shows from the side of the stage; everyone from Hawkwind to Clapton, The Alex Harvey Band, Elton John, Garry Glitter, the list is endless. Bill Munroe did a show and a country music club had hired the venue. Unfortunately for Bill they used the house PA, parts of which dated from about 1940 and looked like something out of Frankenstein’s laboratory! An older member of staff who usually worked it had taken a little drink as he was retiring shortly. He reduced a lot of the show to howls of feedback until we managed to coax him away from the faders. I am sure Bill thought we had it in for him! That also introduced me to rock and roll time; you would go to work at 11.00 and get home around 04.00 am the next day when a show was on. There was an Irish pub around the corner where I was introduced to Guinness and where there was always a lock-in. Even now there would not be many places where you could get draft Guinness at 3 in the morning.
So looking at the current scene what do you think?
Vicky –There’s definitely too much hype and bullshit going down, for me, too much emphasis on power guitar trios, etc. I’ll listen when there’s a good song, but endless regurgitation of SRV & Hendrix; however technically well done they’re still just covers. There are a lot of dodgy rhythm sections out there, a bit more listening to Charlie Watts and the rest of the best from the 60’s / 70’s, Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker et al would do them good. They had the magic ingredient – swing. I mean as an example I’ve heard up and coming acts playing Stepping Out – the Cream version – but the drummers just can’t get the back-beat. Everyone applauds the guitarists but main rhythm is the foundation of music and so often it’s wrong. Recently, Oli Brown’s drummer is superb – he has it. Of bands, well definitely Hokie Joint who are a really good, original and song based -great image- they swing (musically that is!) and with us (I hope) can really break the mould. I also have to say Larry Miller and I’ll tell you why – because his love of the music absolutely shines out and because he’s a real entertainer. Some people might knock it, all this ‘serious guitarist tosh’, but at the close of play, when the last over is bowled and the stumps are drawn, (Diana interjects – “to quote a well known cliché”) if you send the folks home happy with a smile on their face then you’ve done your job and Larry does it every-time.
So Vicky have you a philosophy of the guitar?
Vicky – I say it’s not the notes you play, it’s the faces you pull!
Changing the subject for a moment - Vicky, you were whistling the Dixon of Dock Green theme when you walked in, why was that?
Vicky –Well Clive, as well as being a successful DJ in France you’re also an ex cop so we did it for you…
Diana- …that’s only part true; we’ve got an arrangement for it…we have what we call ‘mad-medleys’ that we like to spring now and again…
Vicky – yeah, that medley is Dixon of Dock Green going into ‘Louie Louie’!
Diana –and we’ve got an arrangement of ‘Hey Joe’ set to the music of Dixon of Dock Green (more laughter)
Vicky – Time to take our tablets…
So, the question you must have been asked thousands of times – where did the name Elephant Shelf come from?
Vicky- We’re so glad you asked that…but we aren’t going to tell you.
Why not?
Diana -Because there is a gypsy curse that gets invoked if we do (big smile), - the curse of the Battersea Gypsies.
Vicky – In the album artwork there’s a clue to the origin of the name, it’s to do with Diana’s great, great Uncle who was an explorer in Victorian times. We’ve put together a short comic novel of the Story of the Origin of the Name to be published soon on-line, its in association with BIFF of the Guardian.
Who actually is BIFF?
Diana- Biff, who did cartoons for the Guardian for twenty-odd years, is actually two people; Mick Kidd who lives in Crouch End and Chris Garrett who lives in the Scilly Isles.
Reproduced by Courtesy of Biff
What do the Biff guys do now?
Vicky - Mick Kidd runs a sanctuary for small lost animals in Crouch End, he also lectures on ‘What its Like to Be a Famous Cartoonist’, and Chris Garrett plays saxophone in various bands and does wood-carvings of famous peoples’ heads.
Amazing, so when can we expect to see the comic novel published?
Vicky & Diana (in unison) Soon
Well thank you ladies, I think it’s about time we had a nice cup of tea, don’t you think?
Vicky & Diana (in two-part harmony) Thank you Clive, now tell us about the time when Brighton nearly won the FA Cup
…and Smith must score!
ELEPHANT SHELF – what they say
“These guys are so good – if I was alive I’d be there!” Elvis Presley